APRIL 14, 2009 REGULAR MEETING OF THE PORT HURON CITY CHARTER COMMISSION

April 14, 2009 Regular Meeting of the Port Huron City Charter Commission.

The meeting was held at the Municipal Office Center in Port Huron, Room 408 at 7:00 p.m. on April 14, 2009. The meeting was called to order and role was taken. All members of the Commission were present.

The first order of business was to accept the minutes from the previous meeting. Once those were accepted, Chair Commissioner, Pauline Repp, opened the floor for public audience. Ken Harris of Port Huron wanted to share a couple of observations with the Commission. He felt that a statement made by one of the Commissioners at the previous meeting. The statement was referring to the integrity of the public audience and that the Commissioner didn't want people who don't vote in the city coming and yelling at them for the amount of time they would be allowed to speak. Ken Harris felt this was not an appropriate thing for a Commissioner to say. Secondly, he wanted to be clear on the topic of encouraging city employees to weigh in on how the charter should be written. Ken Harris felt that those employees opinions should not be considered more than the citizens just because they work for the city.

The first topic of conversation centered around city publications in daily newspapers. With the demise of daily papers becoming more and more prevalent, there should be provisions made in the charter that allow city publications to be published in other publications.

A communication from John Livesay, City Attorney and Greg Stremers, Charter Commission member, relative to whether the City's income tax ordinance can be included as part of the Charter. Commissioner Stremers had received an e-mail from the State Attorney General in regards to whether the income tax could be repealed in the Charter. Basically it cannot be repealed in the Charter. The ruling stated that "A city income tax ordinance adopted by the City Income Tax Act by a city council of a home rule city, and subsequently approved by referendum vote of the electors, can later be repealed by the city's governing body but it cannot be the subject of a petition and referendum vote of the electors."

In an e-mail dated March 31, 2009, City Attorney Livesay states, "The city had the authority to adopt the City Income TAx and they adopted it. It was also put up for a referendum vote on June 10, 1968 and passed by about 300 votes. Only the City Council has the authority and power to repeal the Income Tax Ordinance."

Commissioner Tomion stated that there are some things the Charter Commission can do and some only the City Council can do.

Commissioner Wine was hoping they could talk more about this when they get to the Taxes in Chapter 6 & 7. He stated he hated the city income tax.

Commissioner Tomion challenged Commissioner Wine to run for city council and then try to explain how to replace in the budget the $6 or $7 million that is raised by that tax.

Commissioner Wine pointed out that people have been moving to the Townships to avoid the income tax. It was just as easy to live in the township and drive to the city to work.

Commissioner Tomion pointed out that those who work in the city still have to pay an income tax.

Chairperson Repp asked to receive and file the communication from City Attorney Livesay. She then went on to read a personal letter that Betty Raetzel had written to her stating that she does not think we should have a ward system in Port Huron.

Commissioner Stremers stated he had emailed a copy of a preamble he had written to open the Charter with. He wanted to know if the other members had read it. He mentioned that it was kind of long but felt they could edit it to fit what they want to say.

City Attorney Livesay said that most charters adopted over the last 10 years have a preamble that range from a paragraph to several pages.

Chairperson Repp stated for the record that Chapter 1 deals with the powers of the city.

Commission Laurie Sample-Wynn asked why the first Chapter can't be simple and to the point. She hates that the one that is there now runs on so.

Commissioner Tomion asked that everyone keep in mind that these Charters last a long time and the document should remain flexible to work over the years.

City Attorney Livesay mentioned that he thought the city of Hamtramick has a opening to the Charter that captures the powers of the city concisely.

Chairperson Repp then asked the Commission to move on to Chapter 2 which deals with the City Charter. She asked the question "Should we stay with what we have now? A council with a City Manager? She said they needed to deal with this first because what they decide will affect the rest of the Chapter. She suggested they go around the room and let each Commissioner give their opinion.

Commissioner Mark Neal stated that he doesn't think it's broke so why fix it. Look at Detroit for an example of what can happen if there is a strong Mayorial government in place.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn said this community couldn't stand a strong mayor government. She also shared that it bothers her that people from the community aren't showing up to tell the commission what they want to see.

Commissioner Karen Jamison felt the commission probably isn't doing anything right now that will compel people to show up.

Chairperson Repp asked that the Charter Commission put together a position that they think is right for people to comment on.

Commissioner Tomion thought that maybe it's intimidating for people to show up when they aren't sure what sort of government there is to talk about.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn suggested that maybe the Commission should look at the different types of government then.

Commissioner Neal felt that a public hearing should be scheduled soon so the Commission could proceed the way people want it to be. He wants their time to be productive.

Commissioner Tomion said that instead of asking what form of government people what, ask them to come with their problems with the from of government we have and maybe the Commission can propose a solution.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn said that the types of issue people have approached her about are things like electing a mayor, ward systems, length of terms and staggering of terms for council members.

Commissioner Tomion thought that maybe people don't know the terms being used and that this could intimidate them from commenting. He felt that the Commission could put together a summary of the material.

Chairperson Repp asked how the Commission wanted to get the information out to people. Send letters to everyone (which would be expensive)? Get on the Paul Miller radio show and talk about it?

Commissioner Sample-Wynn said that radio program doesn't hit all age groups.

Commissioner Tomion asked if the city could post the documents on the website and then just let people know through different media sources that the information is there for them to read. If people don't have a computer, they could come to the city clerks office and get a hard copy or even read it in the library.

Commissioner Neal feels that if the Commission let's people know about what they are thinking, this will tell the citizens which way the Commission is leaning. He pointed out that those who have been on city council, like himself, know if people are interested in the topic, they will come out.

Commissioner Jamison felt that people are basically reactive, so the Commission needs to give them something to react to.

Commissioner Neal suggested they sit down with the newspaper and pick a day where the paper could set aside a column print what is going on. He also liked the idea of going on the Paul Miller Show.

Commissioner Stremers said he had not heard any negative comments about the way the city is run now with a city manager and council.

Commissioner Jamison felt that although we are a small community, we need someone who can run it like a business.

Chairperson Repp asked if the consensus of the group was to keep the city manager form of government.

Commissioner Tomion said he felt that most people were interested in terms of council and the staggering of those terms.

Commissioner Neal pointed out that Section 4 reflects back on Section 3, which sets up how a council will be voted for (from the city at large) and the terms that they will sit for.

Chairperson Repp suggested they run through the ways this could be set up and write down on the flip chart all the options.

Commissioner Wine felt that the number of council members was fine (7). He felt that number shouldn't change.

City Attorney Livesay mentioned that that number may change depending on whether they decide the mayor should be voted on or whether the next highest vote getter remains in place.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn stated that she wanted the mayor to be elected. She feels it's an important position and really not as ceremonial as people think. She talked about her experience when she ran for council after being on council for only one year and finding that she was mayor. She said she wasn't comfortable with that that position. She feels the mayor should be up for election every 2 years.

Commissioner Tomion set up the scenario that if a council members term is 4 years and they decided to run for mayor and get elected in the middle of their term as a council member this could be a problem. He also pointed out that the Council has traditionally voted for the highest vote getter, but this is not the way it has to be. He said that some of the cities he's worked at had ward systems and electing the mayor worked well with that. He felt that Commissioner Sample-Wynn's point was that when the people are voting for the council, they have no idea who they are going to get for mayor. They don't know what that person stands for or what their platform is. Midland has 5 wards. They have one city council member from each ward. Council elects the person they think will be the best leader for mayor. There are advantages to this form because the mayor will have a majority of support from the council. He stated that if a mayor could not work with a council, the situation would work itself out at the next election. If the council did not like the leadership of the mayor, they would simply not vote for him/her at the next election.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn pointed out that the council has traditionally picked the highest vote getter because they assumed that's who the majority of voters liked.

Commissioner Tomion then set the scenario that if we elected a mayor, what happens if this mayor ran on a completely different platform than the other six members of council. They council won't agree with the mayor and won't support him.

Commissioner Jamison feels our system is inefficient. The learning curve for new council members of a brand new council takes a long time. She feels we need continuity, not a complete change over.

Commissioner Neal felt that if they kept it the way it was, people will re-elect people because they are doing their job. If that person is not, they won't get re-elected.

Commissioner Tomion said that if you have people running in wards, sometimes those people may run unopposed. He stated that statistics show that someone who has been elected a couple times tend to not have anyone run against them.

Commissioner Patrick Parcell wants the mayor to be elected and the council to have staggered terms. He thought the mayor could have a 2 year term and the council could have 4 year terms. He has observed that most councils try to work with each other.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn said that in her experience they do work together 99% of the time.

Commissioner Parcell felt that this would give council more continuity.

Commissioner Jamison worried that if the mayor was elected separately, could the Commission be giving the mayor more power?

Commissioner Sample-Wynn said that when someone is given the gavel they need to be capable of leadership. She also said that 2 year terms are too short because of that learning curve for a new council member.

Commissioner Wine asked if people want a council member to serve 4 years.

Commissioner Jamison referred to Commissioner Neals term asking is it broken? The Commission has an option of doing it another way. She said the city is a business. The council is something like a board of directors and usually a board will pick their own chairman, so why not let the council pick their leader.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn pointed out there were 4 new council members when she was picked as mayor. She wanted to know how it would work letting council pick who they really wanted if they don't know the 4 new people.

Commissioner Tomion pointed out that school boards don't have someone run specifically for chair.

Commissioner Wine mentioned that someone could be a great campaigner but a really terrible leader.

Commissioner Tomion said that if terms were staggered, then those that are already there could pick the next mayor from their group.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn feels strongly that the voters should pick because what if they really want a policy change.

Commissioner Tomion laid another system on the table. He said that Novi loves the directly elected mayor because this gives an indication of what direction the people wan to head. He also said that wards can be a problem because of the squabbling between the wards. He said that some cities have staggered terms and wards but the council people are elected on a city wide basis. He pointed out there about 12 different ways this council could be organized.

City Attorney Livesay said that of the cities he's looked at that have a new charter over the last 10 years, 9 have elections at large and 3 have wards. Several have elected mayors. Also there are some that have 2 people from each ward and directly elected mayor.

Commissioner Tomion thought to set up wards in Port Huron they could be North/ Central and south wards. He said the problem with it is when a census is taken, the ward lines have to be redrawn because of population shifts. County Commissioners have to cover certain areas so the city clerk might have problems setting precincts. It can be controversial. Midland had 2 counties running through it and 3 school districts.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn wondered if there could be 3 council members at large and 3 council members from 3 precincts.

Commissioner Jamison mentioned it will be hard to split up 10 precincts into 3 wards.

Commissioner Tomion said they could have a precincts with 50 people in it.

Commissioner Parcell thought that 2 wards might be a good idea.

Chairperson Repp said she doesn't like the ward system because we have a split already between the northend and southend and if we split into wards, it might just keep that concept going.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn wondered out loud if there were wards, then people would know who their representative was to contact.

Commissioner Tomion suggested that maybe there should be 2 people running from each ward and let everyone vote for 1 from each ward at large.

Chairperson Repp wanted to know what would happen if no one runs from a specific ward.

Commissioner Tomion felt that Port Huron is a larger city so we would probably not run into that.

Commissioner Stremers said he does not like institutionalizing diversion and wanted to go back to discussing the mayor. He likes the idea of directly electing a mayor as Commissioner Sample-Wynn and Commissioner Parcell have proposed.

Commissioner Melinda Johnson feels the mayor should be picked from inside the council. Not necessarily the top vote getter. She felt that the people make it pretty clear how they want council to proceed by how they vote.


Chairperson Repp worried that if people were running for mayor exclusively, but lost, then they wouldn't even be able to be on council and we might lose some very capable people.

Commissioner Wine was concerned about how someone might act if they believed they had more powers than they really got.

Commissioner Stremers wants the mayor elected because that person would know what they were getting into and the people would know what they are getting.

Commissioner Tomion pointed out that people who have been on council for awhile usually run for mayor because other council members encourage them. But you also can get people who have been chairperson of a school board who want to be mayor.

Commissioner Neal said that the mayor is the face of the city. Being on council can help that person step into the mayor's role. However, history has shown that some people are not qualified to be mayor.

Commissioner Jamison wanted to know if there was a way to stagger mayor elections form council elections.

Commissioner Tomion mentioned that there is a dynamic that happens sometimes where 2 people from council will run for mayor. One loses and returns to council. The other wins. There could be bad blood.

Commissioner Sample-Wynn pointed out that there is that dynamic anyway. What's important is that the mayor and a majority of city council have to work with city manager. It's during elections that the community has a chance to voice their displeasure about the city manager.

Commissioner Neal said again that if it's not broke, don't fix it. If people like the way you are doing your job then you will get re-elected. If they don't, you're out. He felt that 2 year terms aren't an issue.

Commissioner Johnson says she sees some antagonism towards the good ol' boys and the rebels get cheered on so this can be an issue concerning council.

It was at this point that Chairperson Repp pointed out that the 2 hours was up and they needed to set goals for the next meeting. They decided it was too soon to hold a public hearing and discussed their next meeting. They will look at elections at large or by wards, the mayor to be elected directly or by council and staggered terms and length of terms.

They discussed their meeting schedule as well. The next meeting will be on April 28th. They will meet the second Tuesday in the month of May but then not meet again until the 1st Tuesday in June because of Memorial Day. They plan on holding 3 meetings in June to make up for the one they miss at the end of May.

They discussed the fact that they REALLY want to hear from the people. They want to know what people want to focus on. They are hoping people will show up and share.

The meeting was adjourned.

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